calling people trolls is real good defense. how bout you tell me why goo is bad? cause you cant play the game online when you illegally dl it?

yup, tell that to the demigod people, 5 to 1 pirate to gamer  ratio earlier

you drm enemies have no facts straight

LOLOLOL

Tell me, of the millions of pirated copies of Spore that exist, how many people actually cracked the game themselves? Twenty, maybe thirty? The rest just rode the other people's effort, just like they rode the game developer's effort. There's a huge difference between the guy who cracks it and the horde that use that crack. The cracker may not be interested in a DRM-free game, but the horde of users are. They get the game without having to wait for it to be cracked.

Not to mention the other stuff being tossed about. No registration of the game at all would mean even cracked copies can get updates and use the multiplayer servers. You don't see that as a benefit for pirate users?

If they are against any DRM at all, of any type, yes. If you have an objection to specific DRM (securom, etc), that is entirely different. Disapproving of specific invasive side effects is not the same as painting it all with the same brush.

I'm calling him a troll because he's complaining about something he clearly doesn't understand in a self-contradictory manner and expects to be taken seriously. Stardock has never had a complete "no DRM" stance, at least not while I've been buying their games. He specifically approves of how Sins was handled, even though GOO is essentially the same thing with a name put on it. Somehow the name makes it bad?

As for my opinion being the only one that matters, no - but it does matter to me. Just like your opinion of me will likely color how you receive my posts, my now-diminished opinion of him will affect how (and even if) I read his posts in the future.

True.

I never said that GOO was bad.  I just said you were a coward, troll and a sheep.  It has nothing to do with the OP's opinion.

Willy, Woca, did you even read all of my post. I said I wasn't trying to troll, and I'm not.

I dont understand why you like DRM. It's not a good thing. I just dont want Stardock to lose its anti DRM stance. I'm also worried about GOO being invasive and ineffective.

Since when have they had to wait for the games?  It takes longer to download most of them than it does to crack them.  The cracked copies are usually the first thing available, they're almost always stripped of the protections before secondary release dates are met.  It's a minor delay if any, piracy doesn't gain anything by removing it.  The only people inconvenienced by anything are the customers.

There is no other justification needed for restricting server access to keys than simple property laws.  The server is physical property, controlled access to it has nothing to do with DRM.  Making sure the only way to play multiplayer is through their server, that is DRM.  Which, oddly enough, inconveniences customers.  Who'd a thunk...

I'm just fine putting up with minor annoyances for the sake of percieved wrongs.  I don't get excited over cd keys, having to leave the damn disk in the drive, I'll even put up with restricted multiplayer setups that don't allow direct connection.  None of it inconveniences people that don't even pay for the game, it's all positive for them, and the people circumventing the protections are having fun doing it.

I love the "if you complain about DRM you're a pirate" argument, it so directly labels the person making it as a total moron. If I was a pirate, why would I care about DRM? It's not like pirates have to deal with it, after all, and it's not like there's been a DRM scheme yet that wasn't broken within days of the release of a game.

DRM only causes problems for paying customers, game pirates don't care about DRM one way or the other because they never have games that are saddled with it.

One question, what the f'in forshizzlesticks does GOO stand for?

did you read my post? did i ever call you a troll?

why don't you like drm? it's not a bad thing, it's not good, its needed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AzpByR3MvI

Its really sad how bad the pirating was for Stardock\GPG in demigods case...

I paied money, and people who didnt get to dance with robbie rotten!

Dude, that video has no connection to the discussion here.

And besides, piracy of Stardocks games isnt that bad.

There's about a hundred thousand pirates that tried and failed to log onto the Demigod servers that probably cared about DRM. DRM is not just copy protection - the annoying shit like Starforce is, but even needing serial numbers and valid log-ins to use the servers are forms of DRM. Some people object to even that, and yes, I will call those people pirates. There is no other reason to want even trivial protections like serial numbers removed.

That would be an interesting debate, but one I'd rather not get into, seeing as I agree with you. Arguably, access to the server is sold with the game, so any restrictions could be seen as unreasonable. But that assumes the game is sold at all, which we know not to be the case (but of course people argue about that as well).

I'd just like to point out that most people don't view CD-Keys or online-authorization to be DRM. The majority of people, when talking about how much they don't like DRM, are talking about software like Starforce. Publishers and developers understand this difference as well as, more often than not, they themselves don't view CD keys or online activations as DRM.

The problem with the word is that it's a general term. Very very few people had a problem with older DRM (cd-keys, and even online authorization). Many many more people have problems with this new breed of DRM. Obviously there is a problem with it.

Man! When will people learn that SD has NEVER stated that they're anti-DRM?!

They're just anti-DDRM. Read: Just like the most of us they abhore SecuFuck, Shitforce and the likes and instead want to provide a means to protect IP with as little harrassment of the paying customers as possible...

And to those who sing along the tune of everyone disliking DDRM being a pirate: Go get a job at EA's PR division!

Arguing about trolls is a waste of space, time and a possible good discussion.